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HomeHomeDevelopment and...Development and...Open Core Testi...Open Core Testi...Control panel UI - erghControl panel UI - ergh
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5/6/2011 10:42 PM
 
Hey Guys,

While its appreciated that a whole lot of great work is going on behind the scenes - visual impressions are what first attract most people to anything.
And at the moment visual impressions are really falling down badly.

What is going on with the control panel - there are layout and UI issues all over the place - it looks and feels downright ugly - and is definitely not a good showcase for all the hard work that is being done.  

I would suggest taking a note out of microsoft or apples playbook - get the UI right before you show the world.  

Westa
 
 
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5/8/2011 11:58 AM
 
@Westa,

We release an early version of the software, even knowing it has bugs and UI rendering issues, because there are other aspects of the release which are worth getting feedback on.  That is why I publish a blog specifically calling out areas where we want feedback and those areas where we are still working.

 

This reminds me very much of taking a walk through of a house that is under construction.  The framing is complete, the roof is on and we have started to hang the drywall.  There is still more drywall left to hang, a lot of painting to complete, and tons of finish work remaining.  I personally like walking through the house before it is finished.  I don't beat up the contractor for letting me see his unfinished work.  Instead I thank him for giving me the opportunity to provide feedback while it is still relatively inexpensive to make changes.



This is the phase when module developers and skinners can start playing with the platform to ensure their extensions will continue to work.  This is also the point at which people can provide much needed feedback about specific feature implementations to ensure the feature works as expected.

Joe Brinkman
DNN Corp.
 
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5/8/2011 9:12 PM
 
Hey Joe,

To continue the analogy - when you arrive at the house and find that the builder has put the roof where the walls should be - thats the time when you should maybe express concern that the design has possibly gone astray.

It seems that 6.0 is trying to be many things at the same time - firstly a very bold leap from VB to C# - something which has been widely praised and from what we have seen to date well executed. Secondly, a leap heavily into JQuery based UI - which at the moment is a work in progress - but something which currently does not work perfectly or always play well with others. Thirdly, in terms of interface a move towards a form engine for settings and management - which also is at this stage challenged in some area. Then complicate this by a layer of Core Modules that are managed by 3rd parties in a lot of cases - that may of may not play well at all with the new design - which given the past experiences with modules not being refreshed or updated due to other external commitments by their 'owners'  should possibly be of concern.

So I guess when I look at this latest CTP - the 3rd now - I was kinda expecting to see a little more stability and consistency in things like the underlying UI structure - something which I would have thought should be - being driven from the ground up.  But instead, it kinda felt somewhat kludgey and unstable.

I guess only time will tell - but also understand that when people  to take the time look at a CTP and express concerns - and also log errors and bugs in Gemini - its because it is something they choose to do - because they care about the future of this platform.

Westa
 
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5/9/2011 7:42 AM
 
Wes,

  The concern is definitely warranted if this was a Beta and we were saying we were almost done.  We have quite a ways to go yet and I know just from watching this internally that the UI comes together very quickly once we get the HTML framework in place.  We started with a few key pages/controls and got them pretty much complete (with maybe 1 or 2 minor rendering issues).  This means that we had the HTML and CSS in place and everything rendering as we expected.  Once that pattern was complete, we moved forward with pushing the html changes through the rest of the app.  CTP 3 has some of that HTML work complete, and some which is not.  Even once the HTML is changed, we then have to go control by control and make sure the CSS is updated to reflect the new structure (think of this as painting the room).  This is a pretty labor intensive process and therefore has spanned a couple of release milestones.



At this point we just completed converting the final controls this weekend to the new HTML structure and will now spend a couple of weeks getting the CSS completed. 



As for the core modules, there is no way in the timeframe we had for 6.0 to get those 100% up to date on the new UI.  In order to take advantage of the new UI, a module would have to take a hard dependency on 6.0 which very few modules can afford to do at this point.  What I can say is that almost every module will be updated in this cycle so that we don't have modules which haven't been updated in over 2 years.  We are working with the team leads to get this completed in time for the 6.0 release.  This will at least allow people who are running a recent version of DotNetNuke to get updated modules.  We'll push this fall to get modules to go through and start updating to the new UI, recognizing that these are community volunteers doing the work.

Joe Brinkman
DNN Corp.
 
New Post
5/9/2011 7:55 AM
 
Hey Joe,

Guess then it really does come down to time will be the tell ... having a 6.0 release with core modules that look or feel broken would be a somewhat hard sell.  The more messy 5.6.x bugs and issues have already stretched the friendship for a number of people - and I guess people are going to be expecting a lot less issues and agro this time round.

Good to hear though, that you are feeling confident about the advances across the weekend ... look forward to seeing where that all winds up in the coming months.

Wes
 
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